Steve Pavey: I’ve spoken with a few people who are pretty knowledgeable about live music in Denver, having been doing it for decades. To say that live music in Denver is much more of a challenge than it once was is an understatement. We all agreed on one thing: People simply aren’t going out nearly as much as they used to. The question is why?
There are a number of reasons, I think. One is simply economics. Back in the Eighties, local bands, whether cover or original bands, could get gigs that were 5-6 nights a week. And the bars and clubs were packed. But back then, a dishwasher could finish his shift and have enough money in his pocket to go out and see a band while having a few drinks. These days, those economics just don’t exist anymore.
We also had some absolutely killer bands, which is not to say that there still aren’t killer bands in Denver. I’M in one of those killer bands and when people see us, thye generally say “Wow, you guys are really GOOD!”. But there was a time in the late 80’s and early 90’s when some of the really great bands left Denver for bigger ponds – some later came back and some didn’t, but for a while there was a void that was left. For every good band that was still in Denver during that time, there were 10 really crappy bands(anyone remember The Stunt Beatles?).
That shift in band demographics started right about the time that there was a sea change in technology. The Internet changed the landscape and more and more live music saw less and less crowds.
Part of that was that due to the technology, instead of having to get in your car and drive a few blocks(or more)to see a live band that might very well be mediocre, you could just pull up YouTube or Amazon and stream the Rolling Stones or Motown or Jethro Tull or pretty much anyone else and crack some brews with some friends at home while eating takeout. No traffic, cover charges or drunks hitting on your girlfriend. And the younger generation today are very comfortable with streaming, and not just music but also TV and movies. There’s a lot more entertainment choices than there used to be.
The Denver landscape now is live bands or Karaoke on Friday and Saturday nights with music jams, Karaoke or trivia the other nights of the week. There’s no way to really make a living locally just playing music – although I do know a few people making a living from a mix of playing, teaching and recording tracks on their laptops for clients.
My band isn’t trying to make a living from music. We’re playing simply because we love to play. But I do miss the old days.
Barb Dye: I really think “the scene” started going downhill when the police really started cracking down on drunk driving. The fines and potential jail time just don’t make it worth taking a chance. And the local, within-walking-distance clubs are small and don’t want to pay crowd-pleasing bands, and even a lot of these have gotten away from good original bands, too.
Michael Martinez: I agree. That started happening around 2013-2015.
Chuck Hughes: Music income sources today include gigging, teaching, sync licensing, merch, and streaming. It’s hard to do it with just gigs, like we could in the 70s and 80s. | We’d go out to see a band playing 9-1 and order a shot and a beer each set. That was considered reasonable drinking. With DUI, a lot of people stopped going out, or went out and stayed for a set or two, saying that way they would’t drink too much.
Joe Bear: As someone whose gigging years started back in a time when it wasn’t unusual for a household to have access to only three or four channels on TV (shut up, gramps!), There’s a lot of good points made above.
But I’d like to put specific emphasis on the multitudinous options for entertainment without leaving one’s home.
Unlimited well-produced video options – cinematic, suspenseful, or other. Gaming – online or simple console. Doomscrolling though FB feeds. Porn. … We’re in competition with entertainment choices people just did not have at their ready disposal ‘back in the day’
Pile on DUI enforcement, smoking laws, and the ubiquity of music to the point that it is all ‘background’ to your average punter. and that pretty much completes the superfecta of dwindling interest.
The cream still rises to the top as the expression goes. And if one gets value out of the music itself, then that’s its own reward.
But the couple hundred per member we were fighting for back in the day was enough to live on. Now its a couple of big mac meals.
In reality, through the price signals behind the law of supply and demand, we’re just getting informed that our true value to society just ain’t what it used ta be.
c’est la guerre
Steve: I feel ya! I had a young woman a few years ago ask me what it was like when I was her age – she was 21. I told her that when I was 21, cell phones and desktop/laptop computers hadn’t been invented yet. There was no internet, no Amazon, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram or TikTok. Cable TV wasn’t even a thing yet! State of the art for recording music was 24 track analog tape and most studios were still 16 track. Her eyes got wider as I told her about when I was young!!
Jim Lopez: From a guy that was in the middle of it ,me .
Starting in 1983 I was a working / giggin musician . I was in a really good band called “The Gravity Band ” a 5 piece cover band that played the current top 40 songs and made them sound just like the record. Not easy to do for 30 songs – both Rock and R&B, great vocals and players .
We would play 5 or 6 nights a week 50 weeks a year booked 6 months in advance . We would make $350 to $450 per week. Rent on a good apartment was the same – [per montj]. That same apartment now is $2k.
Imagine making $2 k a week in a bar band. It will never happen again.
So we made about $20 k per year and you could buy a nice 3 bed house for about $60 k. It’s now about x10 – that house is $600k. Dude, it would be like making $200k playing in bars.
Only about 5 or 6 bands are working like that here in Denver.
Anyway it changed overnight nationwide, not just Denver. 1990 to about 1992.
I agree [with] the DUI laws. MADD got really serious .
I feel bad for the young players today. They don’t get to play out very much. Playing in bands with other musicians for money is extremely important for the development of a musician ,and completely different then practicing chops in your basement.
Rick Rubin producer Red Hot Chili Peppers, Aerosmith , Lincoln Park , Beastie boys , on and on .
He recently said if you’re a musician and some one asks you what you do for a living, don’t be afraid to say “I’m a musician AND a plumber or Bartender” or anything you do for money along with giggin’ because it’s incredibly hard to make money in music these days.
Just my 2 cents.
Demetria Perez: When it comes to playing gigs, Civic Center Park is your friend. That place was home to my first gig and, today, I still play there with my band.
The economy IS in terrible condition right now and so I play music on the side. In this day and age, everyone needs a day job and then people just do their own thing as a side hustle.
DISPOSABLE INCOME is the make or break factor in a person’s finances. The lack of it will completely change a person’s life, regardless of whether or not that person pays their bills.
Michelle Schwinghammer: Cue the old Buggles tune … “DUI laws killed the local band star” … or something to that effect. | Very well said and explained, Steve. The one thing that could minutely improve turnout are earlier shows. Arriving at 9pm and hanging out to see the headliner start at 11:30 worked back then — it doesn’t now, for too many reasons to list (for the audience and the bands). Weekend afternoon shows with a longer line up (4-5 bands) are a niche that hasn’t been explored nearly enough IMO. | Another thought … you articulated many of the reasons for the evolution already, but I’ll add another into the mix: the maximally enforced (and highly State-profitable) DUI laws that were enacted 2000~2010s. Those laws astronomically surged public use of Ubers/Lyfts/Taxis. With that additional hassle and significant cost in play, who among us can go to a show that isn’t in walking/biking distance, regularly? I’m not saying that seismic event in and of itself was bad — I’m just noting that additional level of entry cost killed local music, in a big way.
Garcia Haylar (Haylar Garcia): Not to sound like the old guy talking about the old days-
But what I remember about the 90s was a renaissance of style in Denver. There were so many different bands, pushing against so many different genres, but all of us were in the same scene. That created an excitement among the bands, healthy competition even. And that excitement bled into the fans.
What I realize most about those days is how “ the fans” (if you want to call them that) were just as much an integral part of the scene as the bands were. The people on the floor in front of the stage were just as much a cast of characters as any of us on the stage.
I think what’s missing today can be summed up in a simple word.
Community.
Lisa Dent: Yeah, and then there is the cover/tribute band vs original band rights issues, too (which factor into the economic factors, of course). Like, my band is not totally without originals, but we do mostly covers, and a lot of venues do cut costs by only hiring original bands so they don’t have to pay the ASCAP and BMI dues.
Barb: Not quite true, Lisa. If anyone in the original band is registered with ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC, the club has to pay for that license. If the band wants to get paid their royalties for playing their original songs, they can by turning in a form to those PROs. The days of not needing a license by having only original bands play has long gone by — I’m going to say at least 30 years ago.
Steve: There have been places fined and shut down over not paying for licensing. I remember a place in Englewood called something like Cadillac Ranch or something similar that had ongoing issues before finally closing. [Barb’s note: Herman’s Hideaway’s original owner Herman Roth was hit up for not having the ASCAP/BMI/SESAC license many years ago and I understand that he was fined $25,000. He, too, thought that having original bands only would get him out of it).
Lisa: that’s why I’m confused as to whether or not it’s still a thing, because there are a couple of spots here that have announced they’re only booking original bands right now and cited that as the reason why.
Bradley J. Bradley: The DUI thing certainly played into it, but much bigger as you stated is the availability of entertainment now.
Back then, one could stay home and choose from 4 TV stations, or a few cable channels on a relatively small TV, generally using the TV to provide the audio. Or go to a club.
Now, I can choose between going to see Reverent, take an Uber if I wish to drink, hear songs that I may or may not be fond of or … stay home, dial up a concert by Steely Dan, Yes, Genesis, Dixie Dregs on my big screen TV, with a great sound system, mixed in stereo at exactly the volume I wish it to be. Oh, and the beers here are $1 each, no tip necessary.
Beyond that, we can now get any movie we want for $3.99, again on a big screen TV, great sound, pause it when you need to piss.
The world is changing.
[Bradley brings up good points in the cost of getting a ride home, drinks & food at the club, maybe a cover charge, tips – as vs. the television you’re already paid for!]Carolyn M. Forbes: A couple more things I think has hurt live music are Bars switching to Djs.
Back in the day, bars put in TVs & not even turned off when bands play. And the huge emphasis on DUI & the police quotas set for it along with the very profitable revenue intake. All in addition to the economic deterrent.
Back in the day, I used to call clubs first to make sure there was a band vs DJ. I’d avoid DJs when live music the utmost. Just some things I think hurt live music. Don’t like sports bars at all as they killed bands & damcing!
Ray Cruz: Cuz everybody is doing karaoke! I’m singing to a track all the local bands – bands that come from California are doing karaoke more money in their pocket [Barb’s note: You get paid for karaoke??? Isn’t that why the clubs present it? So they don’t have to pay?]